Tokai Ls 100 from 1981 without serial

[reborn old]

For me, seeing a guitar in an unusual color like brown, without the expected serial number, my conclusion would be refinished.

The only 1 piece mahogany topped Standards Tokai produced were all LS-100's
and all produced from 1981 to early 1982 with that finish, as Villager stated.

 

[mono]

this doesnt even come up on my "genuine or not" radar
great bargain for the buyer tho - congrats

 

[Ducati]

However no matter what we show, now does it?

Let's see a few photos of original Tokai LS guitars without serial numbers. Simple question. Feel free to admit that you don't have any whenever you're ready.

Dealers love to call something a prototype when there is an anomaly, and hope somebody will take their word for it. If it's such a rare, prototype guitar, why not ask big money for it?

Here is a prototype Tokai from around the same time. It has a serial number...

http://guitargai.com/html_folder/gai_otherCA3.html

 

[Udonitron]

An inked serial number is easily possible to rub off as far as is also possible to press (engrave?) into the wood a number at the end of the fretboard. I am not telling this would be the case but it is possible to do. And an inked serial means, the best, a 60 model but never ever a 80 and up.

Time to get my monocle and pipe out here

Ebony chips VERY easily...it is a brittle wood so stamping a number into it would cause issues therefore the reason why they didn't, I suspect, or it is a post 1980 model.
However having an ebony board, MOP inlays, a 1 piece back, and fret edge binding would make it greater than a 60 thus no inked serial, if going by your info above

@ Ducati, you live in a dream world of absolutes.
Pity.

 

[reborn old]

Here is a prototype Tokai from around the same time. It has a serial number...
http://guitargai.com/html_folder/gai_otherCA3.html

The Golden era is a customer special order guitar,
a practice Tokai undertook since some of the earliest LS's produced
(200 1978 Burny FLG's) until today.
The customer choses their own headstock logo, headstock script and headstock shape.
The rest of the guitar is regular Tokai catalog spec production.
Other examples of this included Heerbys, later Burny RLG's, modern 1990's + 2000's Greco EG models,
Neo Selects, Pacifix Exclusives and modern Reborn Olds to name a few.

 

[Thunter]

Was the LS-100S the only model to have Old Red (OR) or Old Natural (ON) finish during the 1980s ?

I´m asking because I´ve just placed an order on this...

it was advertised as a LS-60 (which is wrong I believe)
pickup bobbins look like dimarzios for me

There is a ls60 model.I have seen more than one come up for sale on Yahoo.The back is finished in the same color red and I think the neck is too.The ls100 models are cherry back and show the grain.No nibs on these ls60 models and I would guess the top is multi piece maple and not one piece mahogany.Below is a 1983 ls60 that was for sale a while back.Burny also has a similar model

 

[wulfman]

The Golden era is a customer special order guitar,
a practice Tokai undertook since some of the earliest LS's produced
(200 1978 Burny FLG's) until today.
The customer choses their own headstock logo, headstock script and headstock shape.
The rest of the guitar is regular Tokai catalog spec production.
Other examples of this included Heerbys, later Burny RLG's, modern 1990's + 2000's Greco EG models,
Neo Selects, Pacifix Exclusives and modern Reborn Olds to name a few.

That Golden Era is the same as the Bison LP logo so it does appear to be an anomaly that came around the time they were changing from Les Paul logos to Reborn and Love Rock.

 

[Ducati]

@ Ducati, you live in a dream world of absolutes.
Pity.

Let me guess, you still can't find any pictures?

I'm a practical man, tired of decades of creative dealer explanations from the dream world of fantasy. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

 

[Ducati]

That Golden Era is the same as the Bison LP logo so it does appear to be an anomaly that came around the time they were changing from Les Paul logos to Reborn and Love Rock.

The point is - it's an extremely unusual "one off" type guitar from Tokai from the same time period, and it has a serial number.

 

[Matty]

The tone is in the serial number, no amount of fret edge binding can make up for the lack of an impressed serial.

 

[Udonitron]

Quite right old chap, quite right indeed!
Same goes for the poor construction on MIJ acoustics and their poor post WWII MacArthur's SCAP 70's construction.
They all sound & are built like poppycock, I should know...I have played and seen them all good sir!

 

[Matty]

Balderdash.

 

[reborn old]

That Golden Era is the same as the Bison LP logo so it does appear to be an anomaly that came around the time they were changing from Les Paul logos to Reborn and Love Rock.

Possibly. The few Golden Eras that have surfaced and timing would certainly support this.
Another example 222 numbers before GuitarGai's lend more weight to a special order.
There just isn't enough info to be certain one way or another.

Maybe all three guitars discussed belong here: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/262276-mij-guitars-defy-catalog-specs.html

Hopefully there will be more definitive answers someday...
or an insider will write a tell all book.

 

[jacco]

There is a ls60 model.I have seen more than one come up for sale on Yahoo.The back is finished in the same color red and I think the neck is too.The ls100 models are cherry back and show the grain.No nibs on these ls60 models and I would guess the top is multi piece maple and not one piece mahogany.Below is a 1983 ls60 that was for sale a while back.Burny also has a similar model

And the bridge doesn't seem to have brass saddles, like the 100s did (if it's original).

 

[mono]

im starting to think some bridges have nickel plated brass saddles, so its impossible to tell

 

[JDB]

Funny you should say that, just yesterday I noticed the Nashville bridge saddles on my Aria LS600 at the very top on a few a showing an almost copper colour

 

[jacco]

im starting to think some bridges have nickel plated brass saddles, so its impossible to tell

They did but not on LS-80 and up in 1981

 

[jacco]

Let's see a few photos of original Tokai LS guitars without serial numbers. Simple question. Feel free to admit that you don't have any whenever you're ready.

Dealers love to call something a prototype when there is an anomaly, and hope somebody will take their word for it. If it's such a rare, prototype guitar, why not ask big money for it?

Here is a prototype Tokai from around the same time. It has a serial number...

http://guitargai.com/html_folder/gai_otherCA3.html

Udo's guitar is lacking most of it's original parts, so it's hard to say anything definitive about that.

The guitar Villager was selling is, based on the pics, highly likely what he says it, although I would like to see some pics of the cavities and PCB board to be compeltely convinced myself. I wonder why the buyer hasn't provided any additional pics of it, if he wants to be sure what it is.

There will always be anomalies, I own a 1981 Tokai ES-100 with 2 different serial numbers for instance.

Of course you have a point regarding the lack of serial number. Except for some MIK ones, I haven't seen one either.
But making a point that dealers have a certain interest in naming a guitar a prototype and then go quoting another dealer who says to have a special guitar to prove your point is at least questionable.

In this case the all original Tokai made Golden Era model cannot be the missing link between Reborn and Reborn Old as the dealer suggests. And he knows it for we have been discussing it.
This model was built late 1979/early 1980 for it sports 1979 DiMarzio pickups and double ring tuners which were abandoned at the time the serial number was applied. Also; there are no models with impressed serial number by that time anymore and the Reborn Old range goes up to 0009584 which is well above the model he sells. No missink link here. A special guitar, yes.

 

[villager]

look in the second post in the thread, there are the pics, also wheres this prototype nonsense come from? no one has ever claimed its a prototype, its just a 1981/82 LS-100 all mahogony in the natural finish which has somehow missed being stamped !! bloody simple really..

 

[jacco]

No pics of the cavities/pickups Mark, or did I miss them?