Toggle Switch Wiring Issue

[Buzzin_Cousin]

(Chicago Music style toggle, not Switchcraft)

I'm wiring a guitar les paul style with a 3 way toggle les paul type switch. Got a super strat type setup though, with only a bridge pickup. And I want the neck position of the toggle switch to be dead, to act as a kill switch. I want the middle position to have the same sound as the bridge position, no split coil or phasing here.

So I wired the pickup hot wire to the hot lug bridge side, wired the middle sets of lugs to the jack, and left the neck lug side open and untouched. I got sound on all 3 switch positions. I only want sound in the bridge and middle.

Then I took the middle lugs of the switch (that should be wired to the jack) and split them, the lug closest to the bridge I wired to the jack and the other one I left open, thinking that this would fix the problem. But there is still sound in the neck position. It's obviously the bridge pickup's sound coming through.

What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Do I need to ground the lugs not being used?

 

[David Collins]

Not familiar with a "Chicago Music style toggle" as a particular switch. I assume this just a Switchcraft style that happened to be sold through a Chicago Music store?

In any case, when you say sound is coming through in all three positions do you mean that the sound is exactly the same in all three, or that it is full on in bridge and middle with just a trickle of signal still remaining in neck position?

If you have a meter around this should be fairly simple to diagnose. If you plan to keep the guitar this way though, I would be inclined to get a different style switch anyway. Either a Danelectro style closed/open/closed, or a Switchcraft 3-pickup switch with a contact which closes only in one position would be preferable. Kill switches which short out the signal in the off position rather than leaving it open have the distinct advantage of killing any amp noise when off, rather than leaving a hum like an unplugged cable.

Or you could wire your existing switch to be on/off/off, which seems would work just as well for your needs. Just wire your pickup straight to the volume pot, then run the hot and ground of output to contacts one side of the switch.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Not familiar with a "Chicago Music style toggle" as a particular switch. I assume this just a Switchcraft style that happened to be sold through a Chicago Music store?

In any case, when you say sound is coming through in all three positions do you mean that the sound is exactly the same in all three, or that it is full on in bridge and middle with just a trickle of signal still remaining in neck position?

If you have a meter around this should be fairly simple to diagnose. If you plan to keep the guitar this way though, I would be inclined to get a different style switch anyway. Either a Danelectro style closed/open/closed, or a Switchcraft 3-pickup switch with a contact which closes only in one position would be preferable. Kill switches which short out the signal in the off position rather than leaving it open have the distinct advantage of killing any amp noise when off, rather than leaving a hum like an unplugged cable.

Or you could wire your existing switch to be on/off/off, which seems would work just as well for your needs. Just wire your pickup straight to the volume pot, then run the hot and ground of output to contacts one side of the switch.

Hello,

The Chicago style switch works functionally just like a switchcraft. It's just that the ground location on the switch is on the back of the switch rather than the same side. I got the switch from a store ( not in Chicago) and it's an All Parts switch. Just mentioned that bc I was discussing locations of the lugs on this particular switch.

I've done this same exact thing with another guitar and the same exact switch. With the other one, I did independent wiring but actually had two pickups. I just kept the volume on the neck pickup down all the time and used that position as the kill switch. This is the same situation it's just that I don't have a neck pickup and I can't figure out why I'm getting sound in all three places.

So basically I'm trying to get independent wiring with a missing neck pickup.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Not famil

Or you could wire your existing switch to be on/off/off, which seems would work just as well for your needs. Just wire your pickup straight to the volume pot, then run the hot and ground of output to contacts one side of the switch.

No, it's gotta be on/on/off - bridge , middle, neck. The above way is regular LP wiring I believe, and I want independent.

 

[David Collins]

So are all three positions equal in sound, or is the intended "off" position any different at all? If wired properly it should be working fine, but given that it's not a more clear description could assist others to diagnose (and a meter to take some readings with could help as well).

 

[DPaulCustom]

Not too long ago, I was reading a thread on here.
Similar to what you're experiencing.
Turned out that the "insulators" between the contactors of the switch had become conductive, due to the excessive amount of flux/solder.
Not saying this is your issue, but it could be worth checking in to.

 

[DPaulCustom]

(and a meter to take some readings with could help as well).

With a meter, you could check the problem I described.
See if you have continuity across the insulators.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

So are all three positions equal in sound, or is the intended "off" position any different at all? If wired properly it should be working fine, but given that it's not a more clear description could assist others to diagnose (and a meter to take some readings with could help as well).

I believe all three are the same. I've only tested the pickup for sound with a wrench , haven't strung it.

Sorry for not answering that before. I don't have a meter. Not sure why I would need the meter?

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

With a meter, you could check the problem I described.
See if you have continuity across the insulators.

Oops, just read this. Disregard the part about the meter in the last post.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Not too long ago, I was reading a thread on here.
Similar to what you're experiencing.
Turned out that the "insulators" between the contactors of the switch had become conductive, due to the excessive amount of flux/solder.
Not saying this is your issue, but it could be worth checking in to.

Pretty sure that's not the issue, bc I was mindful of that when I was soldering yesterday.

 

[David Collins]

The beauty of a meter is that it can easily and definitively answer 90% of your issues (certainly this one) if you know how to use it - an essential tool for anyone who want's to work on electronics in my opinion. Anyway, in lieu of this -

You have a short somewhere either at the volume pot or the switch. If the volume responds normally in the upper half as you start to roll it back, this would help narrow the problem down to being at the switch (stray wire, solder, or bent switch tabs remaining closed when they should be open). If you roll the volume down to 5-7 and all you get is a bit darker without any real drop in volume, then the short is likely at the volume control. Either way, the problem sounds most likely to be a stray wire or solder blob in one of these locations.

Again though, although when free of errors your wiring should work fine, using a switch which can provide a short across the output in the kill position is generally considered better, as it will give you a truly silent off setting without the lingering amp buzz that an open kill position can leave. For this though, you would need a different style switch to keep the on/on/off arrangement.

 

[David Collins]

Just read the initial post again, and it sounds like you're only using a switch, no volume or tone? If so, it's just a short at the switch. Should be fairly simple to spot by eye.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Just read the initial post again, and it sounds like you're only using a switch, no volume or tone? If so, it's just a short at the switch. Should be fairly simple to spot by eye.

There is a volume pot. No tone pot. Thanks for pointing that out in the OP.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

The beauty of a meter is that it can easily and definitively answer 90% of your issues (certainly this one) if you know how to use it - an essential tool for anyone who want's to work on electronics in my opinion. Anyway, in lieu of this -

You have a short somewhere either at the volume pot or the switch. If the volume responds normally in the upper half as you start to roll it back, this would help narrow the problem down to being at the switch (stray wire, solder, or bent switch tabs remaining closed when they should be open). If you roll the volume down to 5-7 and all you get is a bit darker without any real drop in volume, then the short is likely at the volume control. Either way, the problem sounds most likely to be a stray wire or solder blob in one of these locations.

Again though, although when free of errors your wiring should work fine, using a switch which can provide a short across the output in the kill position is generally considered better, as it will give you a truly silent off setting without the lingering amp buzz that an open kill position can leave. For this though, you would need a different style switch to keep the on/on/off arrangement.

I'm reading what your saying, and it makes sense about causing a short as a kill rather than using an open channel. But haven't had a problem yet.

At home now and about to look under and see about a fix.

 

[Buzzin_Cousin]

Turned out the problem was that in addition to having the guitar wired correctly, I had a line from the #1 lug on the volume pot to the "out to jack" lug of the switch. So this must have brought the sound from the pickup to the vol pot on lug #2, then back out from vol pot lug #1 to the output of the switch, bypassing the way I had it setup (vol pot to bridge only lug on switch).

Can someone confirm?

Guitar is functioning properly now, but I would just like to learn the logic of this.