Van Halen III really does suck. Is Gary Cherone to blame?

[Publius pro tem]

I was going through some of the obscure and oddball stuff in my music collection.
Stumbled across Van Halen III.
Hadn't listened to the entire album since, well... the late nineties.
I remember buying it just because.
Listened through it a couple of times on a road trip, and it was summarily filed away to collect dust.
Playing it again (twice) the other day made me realize that the album EVERYBODY would like to forget sucks.
After all these years, I wondered if my original assessment would change - and it did not.

Let me clarify something here before I go too far - I was never really a HUGE Van Halen fan to begin with.
Oh, I remember when the first album came out.
Stood the rock n roll world on its head.
There is no denying that Eddie was the Hendrix of the late seventies.

But David Lee Roth was (and always will be) an insufferable buffoon.
Great front man? Absolutely.
Good singer? Sure.
Helped complete the Van Halen package and attract a massive audience?
Right on.

But what a motor-mouthed, self-aggrandizing, semi-talented asshole.
Crazy from the heat, indeed.

Eddie's over-the-top guitar gymnastics were technically dazzling, but never really moved me.

Van Halen was the band that was everywhere on the radio and I heard more than I really wanted to.

Then the news came out, after months and months of bickering that made for countless magazine articles:
DLR is out of Van Halen, for now and forever.



Sammy Hagar was next in line, which I anticipated with a zeal I have rarely felt about the music world.
Hey, I was a HUGE Sammy Hagar fan - Montrose, HSAS, anything he worked in.
Pretty decent guitar player, rockin' songsmith, great vocalist, and damned good showman.
Guitar-wise, I would take the simple but effective riffs over the fretboard gymnastics of EVH any day.

When I heard that the two of them were working on an album together - WOW!
Sammy's riffs and vocals, with Van Halen and all his wizardry, this was my idea of a supergroup.
Maybe I could finally learn to really LOVE Van Halen.

The brief TV broadcast of the appearance they made at Farm Aid '85 whetted my appetite.
When I saw that footage of them playing a Led Zep tune because they hadn't worked up any material yet?
Hell, that works for me!



Okay, so the Van Halen fans were mostly disappointed with the results.
As a Hagar fan, I was quick to point out MY disappointment too - Sammy wasn't playing guitar!

Why was a player like Hagar relegated to mouthpiece duties alone?
Saw 'em live a coupla times, in what would turn out to be my last stadium/enormo-dome shows.
They got worse every time.
The last show was not much more than an hour - including the encore.
They even did a medley of a few songs all crammed together - WTF?

It was like they couldn't wait to get off stage and go something that really mattered to them.

Then Sammy was finally out, and his Marching To Mars tour was a show to catch.
Over 3 hours, serious rock n roll, and plenty of stage banter about EVH - mostly positive and all humorous.
Probably one of the best concerts I ever attended.

Sammy mentioned (or hinted) how his days went touring with VH:
Plush travel - separately
Sound checks that were a mere formality
Kill some time until the show
Do a quick run-through a few songs
Hop in the limousines before anyone realized the show was over
Off to the hotel to party

He made a pretty convincing argument that Van Halen had "made it" and were content to just ride the train now.

So what was Van Halen to do?
They were obviously (to me, anyhow) way behind the curve on a Plan B.
Maybe they were creatively spent.
Maybe the drugs had finally snuffed out whatever creativity might remain.
Maybe they were simply tired of the biz and wanted to just chill out for awhile.
(Fans don't like it, but they are damned sure entitled to do so.)

Then Gary Cherone from Extreme was finally disclosed to be the new front guy, after months and months of rumors.
Were they ALL rumors?

So the album finally comes out and I hear the radio DJ music "experts" pronounce it as disappointing.
I was on a road trip, and not having much luck with FM rock stations, so I bought the disc.

Two of my observations from back then come to mind:
1. Cherone was a great vocal replacement for Sammy Hagar's parts.
2. The album was loaded with cheesy sound effects and less-than-impressive songs.

Okay, so I played it through a few more times and tried to be objective.
I simply could not find any bright spots outside of a few cool trademark EVH riffs.



Now, fast-forward to 2015 and a few more listens.
You know what?
Van Halen III really does suck. But is it Gary Cherone's fault?
How much did Cherone contribute to the songwriting?
Does he even play guitar - at least any better than David Lee Roth?

How about all the oddball sound effects and production gloss?
As slick as they were, even Extreme wasn't that bad.

Eddie's guitar playing on VH III was serviceable, but certainly not extraordinary.
At least there weren't the goofy-ass "Jump" carnival-esque keyboard parts.
(I will NEVER forgive Eddie for THAT sh!t...)

On VH III, I noticed Eddie's tone seemed really neck-pickup Strat-ish in a few places.
He did some cool stuff here and there.
But I simply could not get into ANYTHING they did on that album.

But I have to ask again - was it the fault of Gary Cherone?
You know, the guy IS pretty damned talented from all indications I have seen.
And now the very mention of his name is a punchline.

History has not been kind.

Gary, wherever you are man - my hat is off to you.

.​

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

He's what makes listening to that first Extreme album unbearable.

which is a shame because the guitar work on that album is top notch. Nuno was on fire.

..but the words,...so many stupid words and puns.

even the title, "Pornograffiti"


..never heard anyone speak well of VH3, so I never listened to it. Figured between what I heard people say, and what I'd heard of Cherone, I wasn't interested. VH at that point in time were a joke. Grunge was huge,.."hair metal" was not.

That 'Right Now' stuff with Sammy was considered a joke too a couple/few years earlier, and Cherone didn't improve the bands image any when he joined. Hair metal in the era of Grunge.


we were too busy listening to Alice in Chains and Soundgarden when it dropped anyway.

 

[SixAngryStrings]

I've never heard it, I think I may have to now.

 

[Dr. Arkam]

I think i own it. Probably listened to it once or twicr. I've gotta be in the right mood to listen to VH, I haven't been in that mood in maybe 3 years.

 

[Jimmi]

He's what makes listening to that first Extreme album unbearable.

which is a shame because the guitar work on that album is top notch. Nuno was on fire.

..but the words,...so many stupid words and puns.

even the title, "Pornograffiti"


..never heard anyone speak well of VH3, so I never listened to it. Figured between what I heard people say, and what I'd heard of Cherone, I wasn't interested. VH at that point in time were a joke. Grunge was huge,.."hair metal" was not.

That 'Right Now' stuff with Sammy was considered a joke too a couple/few years earlier, and Cherone didn't improve the bands image any when he joined. Hair metal in the era of Grunge.


we were too busy listening to Alice in Chains and Soundgarden when it dropped anyway.

Pornagraffiti was the second album. Much of that album suffers from the late 80s production. Listen to them play that material live now along with stuff off Three sides, and it rocks without the heavy reverbed snare etc. my favorite album of Extremes Waiting for the Punchline. I think they were incorrectly labeled as hair metal. They were dressed up like that by the record company but Nunos playing was a far cry from Poison or Great White. Really good song writer and one of the more complete rock players from any era.

For Van Halen, the first Hagar album was ok but they got better as they went. I like some of the Roth era stuff as well but they were more of a band with Hagar. With Roth it was two solo artists playing the same song...many of them very good songs.

 

[freebyrd 69]

I was given tickets to a show on that tour. I was pissed that i went. That guy sucked.

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

All that to tell us that VH3 sucked??
Damn, you got time, bro!!
VHI&II.
1984.
Maybe a few "Greatest Hits" selections for guilty pleasure.
Done.

 

[Kamen_Kaiju]

@Jimmi

yeah Nuno was underrated. I mean he was popular in the guitar mags,..but his band had an image problem.

He could/can seriously play his ass off though. I only listened to that Pornograffiti album a couple times, purely to listen to him, and he's everywhere at once. And really good at it.

He reminds me of EVH, but meaner, more aggressive. The riffs in Decadence Dance I remember were really fun to play. A little chunky and palm mutey at times.

....but the singing!

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

VH is on doc those bands that's fun to listen to if you're in the mood for it, no matter who is singing.
I saw what I thought was the last Van Hagar show on he second night in Honolulu at the Blaisdale arena. I got super drunk and thought it was a fun show. Great bass solo if you're looking for a break for the beer garden.

 

[Publius pro tem]

All that to tell us that VH3 sucked??
Damn, you got time, bro!!

Huh?

Time isn't really an issue for me.
I type fast.

If I don't have the time to spare, I don't even log on here.

Besides - I TOLD you in the thread title...

VHI&II.

You betcha.
Women & Children too.
Fair Warning had some decent stuff.
By Diver Down, I was really starting to suffer from Van Halen overload.

1984.

Fxck that.
I'm OUT.

That was the album that killed it for me.
EVH playing cheesy-ass synth solos?
Then there's the way overdone videos - I couldn't fxcking escape Van Halen by then.
Only Def Leppard's Hysteria sucked worse.

Maybe a few "Greatest Hits" selections for guilty pleasure.

Like "Feels So Good?"

Done.

Yeah...
I was done when I first saw the video to "Jump" after the big lead-in on MTV.
New Year's Eve 1984.

It was so bad, I even stopped drinking and left the party to go cruising and listen to my car stereo.
At least there was some serious rockin' going on in my 1966 Mustang.

.​

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

Well met, sir!

 

[Jimmi]

@Jimmi

yeah Nuno was underrated. I mean he was popular in the guitar mags,..but his band had an image problem.

He could/can seriously play his ass off though. I only listened to that Pornograffiti album a couple times, purely to listen to him, and he's everywhere at once. And really good at it.

He reminds me of EVH, but meaner, more aggressive. The riffs in Decadence Dance I remember were really fun to play. A little chunky and palm mutey at times.

....but the singing!

Played right, thier songs are great live. In college, I played in a cover band that played the frats around middle Tennessee (great gigs, the frats supplied the PA and payed ~$2000 for a 3 hr gig plus free keg beer and then there were the drunk co-eds after each show ...anyway, I digress). We did Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Kravitz etc along with more obscure Led Zep and a few classic rock tunes...and we played Cupid's Dead without the stupid 90s white boy rap crap and effects....it was great. You strip that stuff away and it sounds much more like the Chili Peppers than it does Poison. It was a hit every time we did it and made up for having to play Brown Eyed Girl and a couple tired Beatles tunes that seemed to be required if you were going to play colleges.

 

[Publius pro tem]

Nuno was underrated.

Killer player - he just never could get a break.

The Rodney Dangerfield of rock guitar.

Check out his old lady's band's first album though.

Baby Animals
The first album is actually one of my all-time favorites.
A little pop-sounding here and there, but they were a serious kick-ass band.
The live show was phenomenal, and Suze DeMarchi can play some killer guitar herself.
They did not one, but two Hendrix covers that woulda put Jimi to shame.

Baby Animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.​

 

[Marshall & Moonshine]

My only exposure to Nuno was Pornograffiti and a few clips here and there. He seems more like a barrage of notes, more akin to Yngwie than EVH's rhythm & lead intertwined stuff.
Dude's amazing, but he ain't Eddie.
Not that that's necessarily bad.

 

[Publius pro tem]

...and we played Cupid's Dead without the stupid 90s white boy rap crap and effects....

Thank you.

Nothing would make me take a last big shot of my beer and walk out the door faster than that sh!t...

... and made up for having to play Brown Eyed Girl

Thank you AGAIN.
I've hated that song since... oh, I dunno... about 1975 - when I was ten fxcking years old!

And yes - all the ladies just LOVE that song.
Including my brown-eyed ex-wife.

.​

 

[Publius pro tem]

My only exposure to Nuno was Pornograffiti and a few clips here and there.
He seems more like a barrage of notes, more akin to Yngwie than EVH's rhythm & lead intertwined stuff.
Dude's amazing, but he ain't Eddie.
Not that that's necessarily bad.

I think you nailed it.

Technically amazing, and certainly respectable talent.
But I just never really heard anything that made me crank up the radio.
Or buy their albums.
Or go see them live - though I have been told that they could really tear it up on stage.

I dunno.

.​

 

[doitforvangogh]

Hey. I have a question. No, wait, I have two.

1. Why the hell do you have anything by Van Halen post-1984?

2. Why the hell would you ADMIT to it, in PUBLIC?

 

[Jimmi]

My only exposure to Nuno was Pornograffiti and a few clips here and there. He seems more like a barrage of notes, more akin to Yngwie than EVH's rhythm & lead intertwined stuff.
Dude's amazing, but he ain't Eddie.
Not that that's necessarily bad.

Try this one:
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtlhQQBzkv8[/ame]

Or this one from the same album.
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKry86NYhVE[/ame]

 

[stinkfoot]

I was going through some of the obscure and oddball stuff in my music collection.
Stumbled across Van Halen III.
Hadn't listened to the entire album since, well... the late nineties.
I remember buying it just because.
Listened through it a couple of times on a road trip, and it was summarily filed away to collect dust.
Playing it again (twice) the other day made me realize that the album EVERYBODY would like to forget sucks.
After all these years, I wondered if my original assessment would change - and it did not.

Let me clarify something here before I go too far - I was never really a HUGE Van Halen fan to begin with.
Oh, I remember when the first album came out.
Stood the rock n roll world on its head.
There is no denying that Eddie was the Hendrix of the late seventies.

But David Lee Roth was (and always will be) an insufferable buffoon.
Great front man? Absolutely.
Good singer? Sure.
Helped complete the Van Halen package and attract a massive audience?
Right on.

But what a motor-mouthed, self-aggrandizing, semi-talented asshole.
Crazy from the heat, indeed.

Eddie's over-the-top guitar gymnastics were technically dazzling, but never really moved me.

Van Halen was the band that was everywhere on the radio and I heard more than I really wanted to.

Then the news came out, after months and months of bickering that made for countless magazine articles:
DLR is out of Van Halen, for now and forever.



Sammy Hagar was next in line, which I anticipated with a zeal I have rarely felt about the music world.
Hey, I was a HUGE Sammy Hagar fan - Montrose, HSAS, anything he worked in.
Pretty decent guitar player, rockin' songsmith, great vocalist, and damned good showman.
Guitar-wise, I would take the simple but effective riffs over the fretboard gymnastics of EVH any day.

When I heard that the two of them were working on an album together - WOW!
Sammy's riffs and vocals, with Van Halen and all his wizardry, this was my idea of a supergroup.
Maybe I could finally learn to really LOVE Van Halen.

The brief TV broadcast of the appearance they made at Farm Aid '85 whetted my appetite.
When I saw that footage of them playing a Led Zep tune because they hadn't worked up any material yet?
Hell, that works for me!



Okay, so the Van Halen fans were mostly disappointed with the results.
As a Hagar fan, I was quick to point out MY disappointment too - Sammy wasn't playing guitar!

Why was a player like Hagar relegated to mouthpiece duties alone?
Saw 'em live a coupla times, in what would turn out to be my last stadium/enormo-dome shows.
They got worse every time.
The last show was not much more than an hour - including the encore.
They even did a medley of a few songs all crammed together - WTF?

It was like they couldn't wait to get off stage and go something that really mattered to them.

Then Sammy was finally out, and his Marching To Mars tour was a show to catch.
Over 3 hours, serious rock n roll, and plenty of stage banter about EVH - mostly positive and all humorous.
Probably one of the best concerts I ever attended.

Sammy mentioned (or hinted) how his days went touring with VH:
Plush travel - separately
Sound checks that were a mere formality
Kill some time until the show
Do a quick run-through a few songs
Hop in the limousines before anyone realized the show was over
Off to the hotel to party

He made a pretty convincing argument that Van Halen had "made it" and were content to just ride the train now.

So what was Van Halen to do?
They were obviously (to me, anyhow) way behind the curve on a Plan B.
Maybe they were creatively spent.
Maybe the drugs had finally snuffed out whatever creativity might remain.
Maybe they were simply tired of the biz and wanted to just chill out for awhile.
(Fans don't like it, but they are damned sure entitled to do so.)

Then Gary Cherone from Extreme was finally disclosed to be the new front guy, after months and months of rumors.
Were they ALL rumors?

So the album finally comes out and I hear the radio DJ music "experts" pronounce it as disappointing.
I was on a road trip, and not having much luck with FM rock stations, so I bought the disc.

Two of my observations from back then come to mind:
1. Cherone was a great vocal replacement for Sammy Hagar's parts.
2. The album was loaded with cheesy sound effects and less-than-impressive songs.

Okay, so I played it through a few more times and tried to be objective.
I simply could not find any bright spots outside of a few cool trademark EVH riffs.



Now, fast-forward to 2015 and a few more listens.
You know what?
Van Halen III really does suck. But is it Gary Cherone's fault?
How much did Cherone contribute to the songwriting?
Does he even play guitar - at least any better than David Lee Roth?

How about all the oddball sound effects and production gloss?
As slick as they were, even Extreme wasn't that bad.

Eddie's guitar playing on VH III was serviceable, but certainly not extraordinary.
At least there weren't the goofy-ass "Jump" carnival-esque keyboard parts.
(I will NEVER forgive Eddie for THAT sh!t...)

On VH III, I noticed Eddie's tone seemed really neck-pickup Strat-ish in a few places.
He did some cool stuff here and there.
But I simply could not get into ANYTHING they did on that album.

But I have to ask again - was it the fault of Gary Cherone?
You know, the guy IS pretty damned talented from all indications I have seen.
And now the very mention of his name is a punchline.

History has not been kind.

Gary, wherever you are man - my hat is off to you.

.​

 

[Engel]

I really digged Fire in the hole.