S. Korea

[SKATTERBRANE]

In S. Korea police have to shut down after school tutoring programs that continue past midnight so that kids can get some rest.

In Finland the teachers are paid like Drs and Lawyers so the competition for these jobs yield high quality teachers.

Here (in the US) unions protect poor performing teachers and schools teach students to pass standard tests so they can get federal funding. In some cases the tests are actually altered by teachers or administration to appear that the kids scored higher than they really did.

We once had the best education system in the world, I remember all the teachers I ever had in all 8 public schools I attended to be top notch, as well as the curriculum.

What in the hell happened?

 

[bertzie]

What in the hell happened?

Well, used to be a teacher could punish students. Now, nobody accepts that their little shit-eating demon spawn they call a child could be anything but a perfect angel. Can't imagine any teacher salary in the US is worth putting up with the little ****ers.

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

In our culture it seems that to be smart is totally uncool. In many other cultures it is the opposite.

 

[bertzie]

Asian cultures in particular tend to put a lot of pressure on childrens education.

 

[Mule Train]

Ya still gotta have American know how.

 

[GuitarToneFreak]

Bertzie's picture reminded me of this

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_pfzYD1dXY]Family Guy - Asian Family ( You Doctor Yet? ) - YouTube[/ame]

Anyway, I think it's pretty simple, America doesn't care as much about education as some other countries do. There's a reason why we've been on the decline for a while, other countries make education a top priority, we don't give a fvck about it here.

 

[Daniel]

Ya still gotta have American know how.

I haven't seen too much of that around in a long time.

 

[fjminor]

When I go to Teacher/Parent conferences and there are only 3-5 parents out of most classes with an average size of 30 students, that says alot.

 

[FLICKOFLASH]

Ya still gotta have American know how.

?????\

 

[Torren61]

.

Here (in the US) unions protect poor performing teachers and schools teach students to pass standard tests so they can get federal funding. In some cases the tests are actually altered by teachers or administration to appear that the kids scored higher than they really did.

There you go, blame it on unions again. Did unions decide that teachers don't make sh!t for wages? No, actually they are instrumental in helping teachers get a liveable wage. Information FAIL on your part. db

 

[PraXis]

 

[bertzie]

There you go, blame it on unions again. Did unions decide that teachers don't make sh!t for wages? No, actually they are instrumental in helping teachers get a liveable wage. Information FAIL on your part. db

Please keep this civil. What Skatter was referring to, is that you can't simply fire a bad teacher. And yes, while most teachers are good, hard working teachers, there's bound to be bad, lazy teachers that should be removed, same as any other industry. And as useful as unions are, unfortunately they do have the side effect of making it difficult and in some cases impossible to remove someone that needs to be removed.

 

[Howard2k]

Please keep this civil. What Skatter was referring to, is that you can't simply fire a bad teacher. And yes, while most teachers are good, hard working teachers, there's bound to be bad, lazy teachers that should be removed, same as any other industry. And as useful as unions are, unfortunately they do have the side effect of making it difficult and in some cases impossible to remove someone that needs to be removed.

Right. I think the promotion of mediocrity is an unfortunate side effect of any unionized workplace. Unions have value in some circumstances, but the effect is difficult to ignore.

 

[Torren61]

Right. I think the promotion of mediocrity is an unfortunate side effect of any unionized workplace. Unions have value in some circumstances, but the effect is difficult to ignore.

Promotion of mediocrity? Are you serious? Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. I am union and I have a hell of a lot of certifications that most non-union workers in the same field do not have. I have an excellent work ethic (safety, quality, quantity) and I am anything but mediocre in my trade. Unions strive to make sure their workers are the best. Unions want the safest, the most trained and the most productive workers as their members. It does NOT help your image to have inept members.

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

I am not against the concept of unions, but as with most things, the original purpose becomes at the very least obsured, and in many cases completely subverted.

 

[bertzie]

Right. I think the promotion of mediocrity is an unfortunate side effect of any unionized workplace. Unions have value in some circumstances, but the effect is difficult to ignore.

And employee abuse was what gave rise to unions in the first place. But until we as a species decrease in our antaginistic activities towards one another, unions will be necessary to some degree.

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

Torren, I understand and have first hand knowledge of what you are speaking of. I suspect you belong to a trade union? I have also belonged to them, and I agree with what you are saying.

I just do not see that teacher's unions have been all that benficial of late. I do see evidence where that is beginning to change, but we'll see.

I do know that to be a good caring teacher is VERY frustrating and with the current state of affairs we are lucky to have ANY decent teachers at all. THAT has to be changed.

 

[Torren61]

I am not against the concept of unions, but as with most things, the original purpose becomes at the very least obsured, and in many cases completely subverted.

Direct the focus where it belongs: Underpaid, overworked educators/baby sitters unable to complete the tasks assigned to them. Why are they underpaid? Because WE don't value them as we should. Teachers don't make half of what they're worth. Why are they overworked? Because there are not enough teachers employed by most schools because the funding just isn't there. Many teachers have classrooms with many more kids than they were intended to teach. Why are they babysitters? Because many parents either don't give a damn, are single parents and don't have as much time as they need to be properly involved or are working long hours because they don't make a fair wage.

 

[SKATTERBRANE]

My work ethic has never been the result of either management or union influence. I work for my OWN satisfaction and sense of worth.

 

[Torren61]

Torren, I understand and have first hand knowledge of what you are speaking of. I suspect you belong to a trade union? I have also belonged to them, and I agree with what you are saying.

I just do not see that teacher's unions have been all that benficial of late. I do see evidence where that is beginning to change, but we'll see.

I do know that to be a good caring teacher is VERY frustrating and with the current state of affairs we are lucky to have ANY decent teachers at all. THAT has to be changed.

Simple solution: Pay them more. You get what you pay for. As was stated earlier, raise their wages and you will attract a higher quality level of teachers. Help them help OUR kids.