Epiphone Les Paul Ace Frehley Budokan pots, caps and wiring

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Tommee

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Hi!

I'm the happy owner of the Epi Budokan #158, and I'm wondering if the caps and pots are the same as on the Gibson version, which values, which manufacturing.

Besides, the wiring is apparently the same as on a Les Paul Custom black beauty (bridge and middle PU together when in middle position), which gives an interesting "out of phase" type sound. The problem is we can't control independently the middle volume, and the toggle switch "Ace-effect" just isn't the same with the middle PU on just before hitting the treble position.
So I need to re-wire according to "the other" Les Paul Custom wiring schematics, with 3 independant volume controls and a master tone. BUT will I still keep the "out of phase" type sound with both pickups on?

Thank you guys!
 

battra

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So it is wired to be bridge/middle volume and tone and neck volume and tone?

That's messed up and I'd change that!

I'd want to get the Jimmy Page six way switch...

Can that be purchased by itself?
 

battra

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Well I'd put that into my 3 Pup les paul.
 

Tommee

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Well first Congrats!!!
I found the same problem doing the Ace Frehley Kill swicth thing but by going from Rhythm to bridge it do the trick, but you've got to be fast otherwise the middle pickup stay in the process.

look the folling thread to read more

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epiphone-les-pauls/211612-budokan-toggle-switch.html

Yeah, you have to be fast! But even then, it doesn't compare with the "Ace effect" done with my other Les Paul ('59 wiring), with neck volume on 0, the middle position is off, and the effect is much more pronounced. No, we really have to change the wiring if we want to have the killswitch effect: 3 independent volume controls and one master tone, and let's rock!
 
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the problem is found if we have three master volume. I will have two pick ups to put to zero. because often when I play and I want to do a kill swicth part I forgot to put at zero the neck volume. so imagine if I forgot to put both pickups at 10 when I am ready to do a kill switch .... I will be not easy to put TWO pickups to zero in a fraction of seconds.
:eek:

this being said .... when I got the guitar, I really really wanted to have 3 masters volume and thinking to have full control on each pickups but playing with the guitar since the three last weeks. I decided to adjust my playing to the guitar insead! :D and I am happy with my decision so far.

like in this video, I am getting good to master the trick of going from Rhythm to bridge it. nothing is impossible
http://youtu.be/cJ10lJ3FTek


Here's a small clip of me playing my favorite riffs from Alive II, sorry for the few mistakes in my playing but I haven't spent the time that I wanted to learn everything note-by-note and some parts are really in the moment kind of improvisation.

For this demo, I run the guitar through a Boss DS-1 ,Line 6 MM4, Line 6 Echo Park, Line 6 Verbzilla throught a Traynor Custom Valve 40WR YCV40WR.

the strings are Ernie Ball Slinky (10-46) tuned in Eb

Enjoy :D
 

TradAl

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Well first, congrats on the budokan! Add it to the count.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epiphone-les-pauls/211489-counting-budokans.html

As for wiring, this may answer your question:

3pickups.jpg


I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but hope it helps.
 

Tommee

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Yes, that's it! Unfortunately, I thought it was the best solution, but I read that it could "compromise the tone" and even on 0, " a little bit of signal can leak". It's sure that the idea of having the middle permanently on is a little weird...

So this is not the solution, we certainly don't want to compromise the tone of our Budokans in any way!

Maybe I could keep the same wiring, but install push-pull pots, which would allow me to put Neck or middle or both off, and then the killswitch effect could be attainable the way it was intended to be on this guitar.

This is the same as having only the bridge connected (just like on the Gibson), but being able to connect neck and middle as we wish just with pulling (or pushing, according to the preferred choice) a knob.

Of course, I'm thinking about this because I'd like both the Ace-killswitch effect, without losing the use of neck and middle PU for playing other music. Besides, I would not lose independant tone controls on neck and bridge. With independant wiring, the separate neck tone is lost.

I don't know if push-pull pots are possible without an influence on the tone, what do you think?
 

MrKensei

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You could just fit a killpot. Basically a momentary push pull pot. Tap it with the heel of your hand to kill the sound. As fitted to the epi gothic gt series. Sure you wouldn't be using the switch but it would work well sidecars without hurting the tone.
 

Tommee

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I think it's all a matter of knowing what we gain and what we lose.

On this guitar, I value more a perfect killswitch effect than the Middle/bridge PU combination even though it's interesting, but it's too "Stratish" for my tastes.

So I think I will disconnect the Middle PU and leave it just like a 2-PU Les Paul!

By the way, will my guitar tech just need to unsolder the Middle PU or will he need to rewire the guitar altogether too?
 

battra

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Here's another and probably BETTER idea from the glorious mind of BATTRA!

Why not re-wire the guitar so that instead of the controls being:

1 Vol & Tone for Bridge/Middle
1 Vol & Tone for Neck

Change it to:

1 Vol & Tone for Bridge
1 Vol & Tone for Middle/Neck.

This way, you have complete control over all three pickups. The neck and middle are never on together, so you can blend the middle/bridge while using them both.

You get the best of all worlds.

Thoughts?
 

msvsdoj

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Here's another and probably BETTER idea from the glorious mind of BATTRA!

Why not re-wire the guitar so that...

Thoughts?

It shoots rockets?! Excellent idea battra!
 

Hack

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No, they all have it. You just have to play the right note.
 

Tommee

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As for the wiring, does anybody know if the Gibson VOS (with just one pickup connected) is wired 50's style, "from 1960 onwards" style, or modern style?

I need to know how the bridge PU is connected to the volume and tone pots on the VOS, if I want the wiring to be accurate.
 

ACELUEK

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As for the wiring, does anybody know if the Gibson VOS (with just one pickup connected) is wired 50's style, "from 1960 onwards" style, or modern style?

I need to know how the bridge PU is connected to the volume and tone pots on the VOS, if I want the wiring to be accurate.

Here is my VOS wiring..

The neck and middle wires are are wired to the pots, but are cut off about 3 inches in the control routing channel.

POTS_CONTROL_CAVITY.jpg


PICKUP.jpg


DSC_0469.JPG


DSC_0468_copy.JPG


DSC_0467_copy.JPG
 

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