Alnico 4 to Alnico UOA5

[astroshagger]

Hey all:

Just a magnet question I was hoping some of you might be able to help me with:

What kind of tonal response could I generally expect from changing a PAF replica's (in this case OX4) magnet from AIV to UOA5?

 

[Zhangliqun]

A little bit brighter, slightly more output assuming both are more or less fully charged up.

 

[astroshagger]

A little bit brighter, slightly more output assuming both are more or less fully charged up.

The UOA5 is slightly degaussed

 

[AJK1]

If OX4 thought UOA5 were better they would have put them in
I wouldn't touch them

 

[kboman]

I swapped around magnets in a Dr Vintage from Wolfetone and my experience was this:

A2 to A4: "flatter" response; a bit brighter and a bit more output.
A4 to UOA5: more low mids and a bit more lows, more output.

(magnets from Lt Kojak who will probably know more about how they were charged etc, I have no idea myself)

 

[crave1]

Just swapped a new A4 for a new A5 as I felt the pickup was missing something in my tone with the A4 magnet. Just a little too neutral to my ears.

Before I did the mag swap I swapped out the pickup for an early 80's A5 DiMarzio PAF just to see what happened - I got the sound I was looking for but not quite enough highs.

Turns out I was looking for that slightly scooped tone that A5 mags give with boosting the lows and highs of the pickup characteristics. I did the swap and ended up with a slightly louder tone and what I consider to be my secret weapon in making a bright 60's neck Les Paul a bit of a tone monster (To my ears anyway).

I've got a Les Paul Custom with a Shaw in it (UOA5 mag) and the pickup with the mag switch compares very well.

I'd still go with an A4 in the neck position tho.

Cheers

 

[Zhangliqun]

If OX4 thought UOA5 were better they would have put them in.

Obviously. But that doesn't necessarily mean the OP thinks UA5 is better, and he's the owner now.

I wouldn't touch them

If he's familiar with doing mag swaps, why not? It won't explode.

 

[astroshagger]

Just swapped a new A4 for a new A5 as I felt the pickup was missing something in my tone with the A4 magnet. Just a little too neutral to my ears.

Before I did the mag swap I swapped out the pickup for an early 80's A5 DiMarzio PAF just to see what happened - I got the sound I was looking for but not quite enough highs.

Turns out I was looking for that slightly scooped tone that A5 mags give with boosting the lows and highs of the pickup characteristics. I did the swap and ended up with a slightly louder tone and what I consider to be my secret weapon in making a bright 60's neck Les Paul a bit of a tone monster (To my ears anyway).

I've got a Les Paul Custom with a Shaw in it (UOA5 mag) and the pickup with the mag switch compares very well.

I'd still go with an A4 in the neck position tho.

Cheers

Was the A5 you put in place of the A4 a deguassed UOA5? Or was it a short, fully charged A5?

 

[freefrog]

I post below a quadruple screenshot showing a "synthesis" of frequencies produced by a same set of hand guided underwound PAF clones, with various mags.

It's a bit "artificial" since it blends the respective responses of neck and treble pickups but it gives a pretty good idea of how various alnico's affected the tone in THIS case (the set was in a semi-hollow guitar, plugged direct to the board and playing only the same series of chords: single notes would yiled different results).

FOOTNOTES
-the mags used in this test came from AddictionFX;
-the U0A5's appeared to be degaussed (soundwise)... but were in fact the most gaussed according to the lab teslameter used to measure them;
-IME, the same pickups might squeal or not, according to the mag bar that we put in their bellies...
-I've recently posted a few others pics showing the response of a NECK PU only, with the same kinds of alnico bars. This other PU was a Duncan SH1 (machine wound, so) excited this time by chords AND single notes. The related results are here: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/att...neck-pickups-samesh1semihollowvariousmags.jpg

FWIW.

 

[crave1]

Was the A5 you put in place of the A4 a deguassed UOA5? Or was it a short, fully charged A5?

Couldn't say fully charged or not but it was a straight up A5 that came out of a 2 year old pickup - same pickup manufacturer actually - swapped the A4 out of a bridge PAF type for the A5 in a slightly hotter wind neck PAF type.

Both pups came out great for me

I am sorely tempted to try a UAO5 in another Bridge A4 pup I have just to see what the difference might be (sweeter tone?). I wouldn't be going the degaused route tho. I tried a lower charge A5 in an 8.3k pup and it didn't do anything for me

 

[ReWind James]

Charge levels aside...

OX4 and Wizz seem to be pretty bright for A4 pickups. Part of that is the rest of the pickup, of course, but the A4 mags I've found in them seem to be brighter on average (on their own) than most other A4s I've had in the shop.

Most long UOA5s will have far less midrange, more treble in the pick-attack / Zildjian hi-hat frequency range, and the bass will be louder and more focused in the upper-bass / lower-mids range. Most UOA5s should also give a softer/more compressed feel.

If the magnets are not both fully charged all generalized comparisons go out the window and you'll need to compare the actual two magnets in your hand so... there's your answer - try it and find out!

 

[ReWind James]

If OX4 thought UOA5 were better they would have put them in
I wouldn't touch them

With all due respect, this is just plain not true.

No single configuration of any pickup is ideal or "better" for all guitars, rigs, styles, and ears.

If that were the case, I'd be standing in the unemployment line along with Seymour, Larry, Lindy, Jason, Peter, etc. because that one pickup would be in all guitars already and there would be no market for alternatives.

There is no better way to acquire knowledge than first hand experience. Trying a magnet swap will give the OP the answer he wants, as well as expanding his knowledge and experience of custom-voicing guitars.

 

[50WPLEXI]

Remember one thing here, not all magnets are created equal either. Sorry to throw another spin on this

 

[AJK1]

Hey all:

Just a magnet question I was hoping some of you might be able to help me with:

What kind of tonal response could I generally expect from changing a PAF replica's (in this case OX4) magnet from AIV to UOA5?

Put simply, it won't be a PAF replica anymore

 

[AJK1]

With all due respect, this is just plain not true.

No single configuration of any pickup is ideal or "better" for all guitars, rigs, styles, and ears.

If that were the case, I'd be standing in the unemployment line along with Seymour, Larry, Lindy, Jason, Peter, etc. because that one pickup would be in all guitars already and there would be no market for alternatives.

There is no better way to acquire knowledge than first hand experience. Trying a magnet swap will give the OP the answer he wants, as well as expanding his knowledge and experience of custom-voicing guitars.

I see your point, but how many pickups out there come standard with a UOA5 magnet
Not many i'd say
You as a pickup maker would spend many hours designing pickups and using different mags etc, but i would say a great sounding pickup is the sum of it's parts and how they mix/gel together, not just a mag swap

 

[Bluefox]

Put simply, it won't be a PAF replica anymore

That's not true, it would still be a PAF replica, just with a different magnet than the one chosen by the winder. Gibson used different magnets, so any user can do the same and still keep it as a legit vintage replica.
Yes, a great sounding pickup is the sum of all parts used, but "great sounding " is subjective and any "great sounding" pickup can be made even greater in my guitar, through my rig, with a magnet swap for that subtle nuances which may suit me better.
And after all, if after the swap the result is that a certain pickup sounded better in his original configuration it's just as simple to put back the original magnet with no harm to the pickup.
I don't think any winder would take offence if the owner of one of his sets thinks that it sound better, on his guitar, with different magnets than the ones he choose.
I hope so, as I'm always messing with pickups and, to say the truth, the winders I know always encouraged me to experiment with their models.

 

[MiniB]

I have tried an A4 and an UOA5 in an 8.6K Antiquity bridge bucker. The A4 was a plain/polished, and the UOA5 was an 'Illinois' type I got from Jon at ThroBak. The A4 was rather even across the EQ, but I was looking for a little more meat to the tone.

The UOA5 sounded quite peaky in the upper mids in this pickup compared to the A4. It is a quite fat and warm peak rather than the harder, brighter and scooped peak of a regular A5. It actually made the Antiquity bridge sound (to me) like a regular-production SD Pearly Gates. But it also made the bass in comparison feel weaker than before, so I went back to the A4.

 

[ARandall]

Put simply, it won't be a PAF replica anymore

The various makers of Peter Green pickups put A5, A2 and A4 mags in them. Are you telling me anything but A4 isn't PAF clone, despite it being common knowledge that Gibson used a variety of mags (yes, maybe even UOA5 according to reports).

 

[ReWind James]

I see your point, but how many pickups out there come standard with a UOA5 magnet
Not many i'd say

Though I only have two stock pickup sets that feature at least one UOA5 magnet, at the end of the day, I sell more UOA5 and A2 magnets in pickups than any others. There may well be pickups out there that use UOA5 but simply list it as "A5" because (outside of forums like this) most players don't have a clue what UOA5 is.

You as a pickup maker would spend many hours designing pickups and using different mags etc, but i would say a great sounding pickup is the sum of it's parts and how they mix/gel together, not just a mag swap

I agree that a pickup's overall sound and feel depends on all aspects of its design and materials, not just the magnet.

 

[ReWind James]

No need to discourage a player from even trying a cheap and easy magnet swap in an attempt to meet his sonic goals (or just experiment) and gain knowledge and experience under the presumption that the pickup is "best" in all guitars, rigs, hands, ears and hearts only when paired with the factory magnet. We already know "best" is going to be different for everyone. It's a $10 / 10 minute process to swap a humbucker magnet and learn. It doesn't speak any less of the pickup designer to say that a person may want to try, or even prefer, a different magnet in any given pickup. All guitars and minds are unique.

I encourage clients to swap magnets in my pickups to help voice them to their preferences or just for experimentation and knowledge learned. We all swap pickups, strings, guitars, speakers, amps and just about everything in our rigs. Magnet swaps are no different to a person pursuing their own personal musical bliss than switching from Corian to bone or nylon nuts, changing from modern to 50's style wiring, top-wrapping, trying out pure nickel strings, or installing snow tires on a truck. It's all part of the process.